Frequently Asked Questions

1.  What is being proposed for Winston Farm?

In meetings this spring with Saugerties officials, shopping-mall developer Paul Wilmot and the Oklahoma-based Seneca-Cayuga tribe described a Las Vegas-style Class III casino resort that would include:

*           a 1.2 million-square-foot “resort/casino" (more than the total square feet of casino floor space in Atlantic City)

*           1 million square feet of retail space (bigger than the Hudson Valley Mall)

*            a 750,000-square-foot convention center (almost the size of Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York)

*            a 900-room hotel (50% bigger than The Plaza in New York)

*            parking for 23,500 vehicles in five garages (three times the spaces at Shea Stadium)

*            a 27-hole PGA golf course

Furthermore, they said this was the "initial phase," and that "subsequent phases [would] add 1.7 million square feet of additional resort uses for the casinos and restaurants" with "3 distinct resorts on one property."  The future phases would include a 500,000-square-foot,  20,000-seat sports and entertainment arena (bigger than the Pepsi Arena in Albany). 

In response, members of the Saugerties Village Board, Saugerties Town Board and Ulster County Legislature voted unanimously in June to oppose the casino – a community response unusual in its unity and speed.  A week later, the casino backers met privately with the Ulster County Development Corp. and presented a brochure that sketched out a plan for the “Saugerties Entertainment Resort.” Predicated with the words, "As we conceive it today," it said “the heart of the Resort will consist of a 2,000-seat state-of-the-art theatre and museum and cultural center that will commemorate the ’69 and ’94 Woodstock festivals.” The glossy brochure, which did not use the word “casino” or a casino photo, presented a scaled-down plan for the following:

·         A 160,000-square-foot “gaming” area (making it the fifth largest casino in the U.S.)

·         A 512,000-square-foot retail shopping area (two-thirds the size of the Hudson Valley Mall)

·         A 601,900-square-foot hotel built with 50,000 square feet per floor – which would make it 12 stories high. (The map says  “RESORT HOTEL, 5,000 SF/Floor,” which is presumably a misprint since that would mean a 120-story hotel.)

·         An estimated number of daily visitors of 19,039 (up from 18,000), estimated to eat only 14,000 meals a day and use only 6,000 parking spaces.

·         In addition, the plan map seems to allow for the casino to expand to twice its current floor size and for the buildings to expand into an area 50% larger. Given the fact that Paul Wilmot and his father Thomas have tried unsuccessfully in the past to build the biggest Indian casino resort in the country elsewhere in several phases, it is conceivable that the new proposal (if not just a public relations strategy) is actually Phase One of an even larger development.

2.  How would it affect Saugerties?

·          Crimes would increase: Crime rates in casino communities are 84% higher than the national average, says U.S. New & World Report. In Ledyard, Conn., originally a rural area like Saugerties, crime tripled between 1990 and 1998 with the growth of Foxwoods Casino -- including a rise in drunk driving, drugs, prostitution, burglary, sexual assault, and car theft.

·          A casino also increases local bankruptcies, embezzlements and suicides, research shows. When a new casino is built, gambling addiction rates double within a 50-mile radius, and casinos are linked statistically with increasing debt, DUI arrests, and domestic violence.

·          The one million gallons of water daily (the amount of water used by the Village of Saugerties, Glasco and Malden water districts) would threaten the limited aquifer.

·          Because casinos typically have extremely high turnover rates, a transient workforce would make affordable housing even scarcer. Most casino jobs are low-paying, and because there aren’t 3,000 unemployed workers locally, a casino would have to bring in mostly low-skilled workers.

·          Gamblers and casino shift employees would use not only the Thruway but surrounding country and village roads to make their way to the casino, leading to constant traffic congestion. 

·          The school system would come under severe strain from increased enrollment. In the towns around Foxwoods Casino, the students speak more than 30 different languages, necessitating special instruction

·          Downtown businesses would lose employees to the casinos and customers to the traffic snarls. Because casino resorts are self-enclosed worlds, local businesses seldom see an increase in foot traffic, and local restaurants struggle to compete with low-cost casino food.

 

3.  What would Saugerties get in return?

As tribal land, the 840-acre Winston Farm (at the junction of Routes 32 and 212, near Thruway exit 20) would be sovereign territory of the Seneca-Cayugas and thus exempt from property and sales taxes. The casino backers initially said they would not give money to Saugerties but would give $15 million for seven years to Ulster County, of which the town would have to seek part. After facing stiff community opposition, the backers upped their offer to $30 million a year, split between the county and town, for 20 years. However, the sovereign nation status of the casino means any promises cannot be legally enforced in U.S. courts. Furthermore, according to University of Illinois research, for every tax dollar taken in from gaming taxes, there is an outlay of three dollars for infrastructure costs, relatively high regulatory expenses, criminal justice system and social-welfare expenses.

4.  How much say will Saugerties have over the development?

Little, if any. If the land becomes sovereign Seneca-Cayuga territory, in effect it is a separate nation and exempt from all local, state and federal statutes – including zoning, environmental and no-smoking laws. The tribe may agree to some restrictions – such as paying state taxes -- to get the necessary compact passed by the State Legislature, but Saugerties itself has no such leverage legally.  There is a possibility that the county legislature may have veto power over a casino site: State Senator John Bonacic has said that Governor Pataki has promised to include that provision in any legislation.

 

5. Who is backing the casino?

On the political side, Governor Pataki wants to give the Indians casinos in the Catskills in exchange for them dropping large land claims (although those land claims are now in doubt following a Second Circuit Court of Appeals decision on June 28). The Seneca-Cayugas, an out-of-state tribe, entered the picture when some New York tribes balked during negotiations at paying the 20-25% sales tax that Pataki wants.

On the financial side are Thomas Wilmot and his son Paul of Wilmorite, Inc., Rochester-based developers who spent $10 million trying without success to build a Gold Hill Pauqusset Indian casino in Bridgeport, Conn. That proposed casino, in its first phase alone, would have been 50% bigger than Foxwoods, the largest casino resort in the country and the world. Formerly the biggest shopping-mall developers in the country, the Wilmots recently sold the mall-development part of their business for $3.2 billion and have shifted their focus to casinos. Thomas Wilmot has an option to purchase Winston Farm and used it to persuade the Seneca-Cayugas to drop their plans for a casino at the Concord in Sullivan County in favor of Saugerties. Casino backers typically get 28-29% of the profits.

6. What has to happen for the casino to be built?

There are two possible routes. In the first, the “front door” route, the governor has to negotiate a compact with the Seneca-Cayugas that would specify sales tax and other issues. It has to be passed out of legislative committees and approved by both houses of the state legislature. Because the legislature in 2001 (to ease budget problems related to 9-11) approved three casinos in Sullivan or Ulster Counties, no new casino enabling legislation may be needed.

 If the state legislature allows county legislatures veto power over proposed casinos, the matter would go to the Ulster County Legislature for a vote. In June the legislature voted 33-0 not to enter into negotiations for a casino in a town that opposed it. (Both Saugerties Town Supervisor Greg Helsmoortel and Village Mayor Robert Yerick oppose the casino, and all members of the town and village boards have also voted to oppose it. A legislative commission has been appointed to study a casino in Saugerties or elsewhere in the county.) Then, on the federal level, the Bureau of Indian Affairs must approve placing Winston Farm in trust. Congress must also approve the deal.

There is also another “back door” route to casino approval that tribes can pursue to have land declared sovereign territory. Based on several loopholes in the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, the "two-part determination" permits off-reservation gaming if a community wants it and the Secretary of the Interior, who oversees the Bureau of Indian Affairs, believes a casino would be in the best interest of both the tribe and the community.  The first step in this process is an Environmental Impact Statement, which the Wilmots say they have begun to conduct.

In Washington, pressure is building to put the reins on Indian casinos, which now number 321 across the country. Rep. Richard Pombo (R-California), head of the House committee that considers Indian affairs, has been circulating a new bill to amend the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act that could make it more difficult for tribes to build casinos in so-called “off-reservation” locations. Sen. John McCain has also raised questions at a Senate hearing suggesting that Congress is extremely concerned about the proliferation of tribal casinos, particularly in “off-reservation” locations.  His exact words: “"None of us ever anticipated that there would be casinos in the Catskills.”

 

7. What court decisions might have an impact?

On June 28th, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit (a three-judge panel) ruled essentially that money damages cannot be awarded for very old Indian land claims. In doing so, the court threw out the $248 million awarded the Cayuga Indian Nation of New York and the Seneca-Cayuga Tribe of Oklahoma in previous court actions – a hefty amount that had been the basis of Governor Pataki’s rationale for giving tribes casinos in the Catskills in exchange for damages. The ruling, which significantly undercuts Indian land claim lawsuits across the country, will almost certainly be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. However, even though the ruling weakens tribal claims, New York officials may still decide to advance casinos in the Catskills for other reasons – such as generating state revenue. A land claim makes it easier for a tribe and developer to get federal approval, but it is not essential if they use the “back door” process.

8. What other casinos are on the drawing boards for the Catskills?

The most likely possibility is a Regis Mohawk gambling facility in Sullivan County. A casino at Kutscher’s was approved by the Sullivan County Legislature, but negotiations for it collapsed in the final hours of the last state legislative session when Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno refused to pass it without including two other Sullivan County Indian casinos (one of whom his son lobbies for). Recently the tribe switched its site from Kutscher’s to the Monticello Raceway in hopes of getting faster federal and state approval. Also, the New York Oneidas reportedly have an option to purchase the former IBM recreation facility in Lake Katrine, just northwest of the Kingston-Rhinebeck Bridge; the tribe has not said what its intention is.

9. What can be done to oppose a casino in Saugerties?

You can:

 *    Join an Action Committee. Ten committees have been formed, including lobbying, legal action, technical work, precedents, alternatives, other uses for Winston Farm, communication, fundraising, storefront, and coalition building.

*     Tell decision-makers what you think. Write or call the key county, state and federal officials.

*     Educate yourself by reading information on the effects of casinos on other towns. including the towns around Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut.

*     Write a letter to the editor.

*     Put a bumper sticker on your car, wear a T-shirt, and sign the petition.

*      Donate money. It’s needed to cover printing, website, mailing, storefront, research, outreach and other expenses. Mail your check to: No Saugerties Casino, P.O. Box 209, Saugerties, NY 12477. Or donate online with PayPal.

*      Get your family, friends and neighbors involved. There’s power in numbers.